PDF Cest pour rire vol 5 : ça décoiffe grave ! (IX.HORS COLLECT) (French Edition)

Free download. Book file PDF easily for everyone and every device. You can download and read online Cest pour rire vol 5 : ça décoiffe grave ! (IX.HORS COLLECT) (French Edition) file PDF Book only if you are registered here. And also you can download or read online all Book PDF file that related with Cest pour rire vol 5 : ça décoiffe grave ! (IX.HORS COLLECT) (French Edition) book. Happy reading Cest pour rire vol 5 : ça décoiffe grave ! (IX.HORS COLLECT) (French Edition) Bookeveryone. Download file Free Book PDF Cest pour rire vol 5 : ça décoiffe grave ! (IX.HORS COLLECT) (French Edition) at Complete PDF Library. This Book have some digital formats such us :paperbook, ebook, kindle, epub, fb2 and another formats. Here is The CompletePDF Book Library. It's free to register here to get Book file PDF Cest pour rire vol 5 : ça décoiffe grave ! (IX.HORS COLLECT) (French Edition) Pocket Guide.

There is probably as much variety of opinion among those who voted with Mr. Hume, as there was among those who voted with Lord Grey in There is no other principle in the matter, and there needs no other. The measure is intended to be such as all may vote for, who think that a large reform of parliament, in a democratic direction, but short of actual democracy, is desirable in itself, and suitable to the circumstances of the present time.

In this respect the scheme perfectly fulfils its purpose. It draws the line with sufficient distinctness. Those who are for no change at all, or for such changes only as would make no difference in the spirit of the government, of course vote against it. All others may vote for it, reserving their ulterior opinions. It excludes all who do not come up to its mark, but admits all who go beyond it.

One lesson the consistent supporters of reform may take to themselves—a lesson which becomes more important in proportion as the contest ceases to be a mere mock fight and becomes a serious conflict of opposing reasons. Their practical conduct as politicians necessarily partakes of compromise. Their demands and systematic aims must often fall short of their principles.

But let them not therefore cut down their principles to the measure of their demands. If they do, they lose far more in vigour of argument, and in the imposing influence of a sense of consistency and power, than they can possibly gain in charming away the fears of those who would, but dare not, follow them. Let them disclaim nothing which is a legitimate consequence of their principles. Let them tell the truth—when it is the truth—that their private opinion goes further than their public demands, and that if they ask less than what their principles would justify, it is not because they fear to avow, or are unable to defend, their principles, but Edition: current; Page: [ ] because they think they are doing more good by uniting their efforts with those of others to attain a nearer object, and one more immediately practicable.

The fault, they say, is in the country itself; in the national education; in the state of the public mind; not in the constitution of parliament. If our statesmen are without ideas and without purposes, weak, passive, opinionless; if they have neither head nor heart to face the difficulties of any great question; if they rarely aspire to leave any of the larger interests of the people they profess to govern in a better condition than they found them; this is not in the opinion of some persons the fault of the men, so much as of the age and country, which have not produced better men, or have produced them only as scattered, obscure individuals, quite as likely to be overlooked by a numerous constituency as by a narrow one.

If the classes who now rule in parliament are so deficient in the qualities which should belong to rulers, do the masses possess them? The knowledge, the vigour of intellect, the freedom from prejudice, the judgment undivided by selfishness or partiality, which we so deeply desiderate in the rich and high-born, do we find them in the poor? That clear-sighted justice and high-minded generosity, combined with practical resource, which the times demand—without which this great transitional period in opinions and institutions may be lengthened out in fruitless oscillations—what reason have we to flatter ourselves that these endowments, which we seek vainly among our so-called educated classes, will be found in the untaught delegates of the factory and the workshop?

Is it not much, and more than we can expect, if those for whom society has done nothing, prove no worse than those on whom it has lavished all its means of instruction and improvement? This objection assumes, as the natural and intended effect of popular institutions, that the crude opinions and unguided instincts of the working classes would be the directing power in the state. We have no such expectation from any extension of the franchise.

Reformers have always maintained, and the example Edition: current; Page: [ ] of France is now before us to show, that views of things taken from the peculiar position of the working classes are not likely to predominate, or to have at all more than their just influence, even in a legislature chosen by universal suffrage. After a revolution made by workmen, not twenty members in an assembly of nine hundred are working men.

Scarcely in our own parliament do opinions with any semblance of an anti-property character meet with a more hostile reception; and it is evident that the errors of the assembly are more likely to be on the side of conservatism than of revolution. Then what has France gained, it may be asked, or what would England gain by the admission of the working classes to the franchise?

A gain beyond all price, the effects of which may not show themselves in a day, or in a year, but are calculated to spread over and elevate the future. This gain does not consist in turning the propertied classes out of the government and transferring it to the unpropertied, but in compelling the propertied classes to carry it on in a manner which they shall be capable of justifying to the unpropertied. Grant but a democratic suffrage, and all the conditions of government are changed. Whoever may be the rulers, the interest of the great mass of the community must then stand foremost among the actuating principles in the conduct of public affairs.

The legislature must from that time make both the real and the apparent interests of the most numerous classes an object of incessant solicitude; and whenever it does things which are opposed to those apparent interests, it must defend them by reasons drawn from the interests of those same classes, and appealing to their understandings.

The consequences of this would be incalculable. The discussions of parliament and of the press would be, what they ought to be, a continued course of political instruction for the working classes. Let those classes be as ignorant, prejudiced, passionate as any one may choose to represent them; let them be full of all sorts of prepossessions against property and order—those who are interested in property and order would feel all the more strongly that their safety depended on enlightening that ignorance, prejudice, and passion. One of the first measures of the democratic government of France has been a bill to bestow gratuitous education, at the expense of the state, upon the whole rising generation of the French people.

To educate the whole community up to the highest point attainable is not then a matter of choice but of fortunate necessity. This, however, is only one, and the most obvious, of the benefits which would arise from making the labouring masses a great power in the state. Nothing can be imagined which would tend so much to regenerate the intellectual vigour of the classes, who are now letting the powers of government perish in their hands Edition: current; Page: [ ] from mere mental feebleness.

Every one who knows history or the human mind is aware, that powerful intellects and strong characters are formed by conflict, and that the times which have produced brilliant developments of mental accomplishment in public stations have been those in which great principles and important social elements have been fighting each other hand to hand—times of struggle for national independence, political freedom, or religious emancipation. The present age also is an age of struggle between conflicting principles which it is the work of this time, and perhaps of many generations more, to bring into a just relation with one another.

The conflict now going on is between the instincts and immediate interests of the propertied classes and those of the unpropertied. This opposition of interests—partly real, partly only apparent—is at present the grand difficulty of government. All other questions with which governments have yet begun to occupy themselves, are difficult chiefly by their connexion with this.

Now, of those two opposing forces—neither of which can be disregarded, neither of which can or ought to triumph over the other, but which it is the grand business of government to attempt to reconcile—one only is represented in the British parliament. The ministry, be it what it may, exclusively represents the propertied classes; and the two houses of parliament are unanimously on the same side of the question as itself.

It has to make out a case to the satisfaction solely of its own party. The murmurs of the other party it only hears at a distance, and is under no greater necessity of attending to them than the cabinet of a despot. There are no recognised organs for that other power, no way in which it can show itself above ground, and the extent of its subterraneous working will therefore only be known when some day, as at Vienna, it explodes and blows up the whole fabric of society. Is it not of old one of the principal and acknowledged uses of parliament, that all which agitates and divides society should make itself felt by a corresponding agitation and division there?

Ought not parliament to be the place of discussion for adverse interests and principles, the arena where opposing forces should meet and fight out their battle, that they may not find themselves reduced to fight it in a less pacific field? If so, the British parliament does not fulfil its office; for the vital question with which all Europe rings, and which fills every thinking mind, both in England and on the continent, with anxiety—the question how to make the rights of property acceptable to the unpropertied classes, is unheard of in that assembly, which it ought more than anything else to occupy; and the subjects which engross parliamentary debates, compared with the great and urgent interests of the nation, form a contrast as full of irony, as the Byzantine multitude Edition: current; Page: [ ] occupying itself with the factions of the circus when Attila was at their gates.

They have to learn the difficult but necessary act of looking at established institutions and opinions from the point of view of those who are not on the sunny but on the shady side of the social edifice. Defects by which other people alone suffer are seldom seen until the sufferers point them out. When the unpropertied are fairly represented in the House of Commons, their just claims will, for the first time, obtain a really impartial hearing, and their unreasonable demands will, also for the first time, be so resisted as not to leave a stinging sense of injustice behind.

This article returns to the issues of No. This one thing would do more towards diminishing the undue ascendancy of landed and moneyed wealth than all the other points, even of the charter, 1 without it. It would reduce the nominees of the landlords in the House of Commons from about two-thirds of the whole assembly to about one-third.

And by making every electoral body too numerous to be bribed, it would put an end to the obtaining seats by mere expenditure, an object for which so much virtuous zeal is so ineffectually professed by all classes of half-reformers. But as it is not convenient to say that the real objection to the measure is its efficacy, every encouragement is held out to the invention of sentimental objections. Electoral districts are said to be mechanical, pedantic, a rule-and-square system; and all the other phrases usually employed to throw discredit on precise and business-like modes of conducting any transaction.

So, because the lightning and the cannon-ball fly straight to their mark, nothing else should. Straightforwardness and directness of aim are declared to be discreditable things, and whatever takes the straight road to its object is an agent of destruction. Let us rather say that directness and power are the same thing or always accompany each other. If the object be to destroy, the means which are most direct are the most effectual; and so they are when the object is to preserve.

When a person is in the water and drowning, Mr. Talfourd would hardly quote Schiller in favour of going round about, instead of straight in to deliver him. If it is absolutely necessary to have an illustration from visible nature, the sunbeams move in straight lines as well as the lightning; indeed more so, for the lightning makes no objection to twisting and turning in order to accommodate itself to the direction of the conducting medium.

A steam-ship, also, would have been a more appropriate exemplification of rectilineal movement than a cannon-ball. The poet goes on to say that the road on which blessing travels. Does it not occur to the admirers of crooked paths that we are living in an age of railroads; and that, now-a-days, rather than Edition: current; Page: [ ] not go straight to our object, instead of winding round the hill we even tunnel through it?

The spirit of the time requires that its machinery, whether for physical or for political purposes, shall be efficient. It is not reckoned a merit in machinery to imitate the pleasing irregularities of nature. Its beauty is in its accuracy: it works by straight lines and right angles, and works best when its lines are most correctly straight, its angles most exactly square. Coleridge himself, though fond of quoting the passage which Mr. Talfourd cited from him, 5 is an authority in favour of electoral districts. He recommended, we think in his Church and State, a new administrative division of the country, describing the present one as barbarous, and a great obstacle to improvement.

Electoral districts are mechanical. And why not? In whatever manner members of parliament are elected, there must be mechanical arrangement of some sort; and what these should be is not a question of poetry or the picturesque, but of means to an end. What is the right end, and by what means can it be accomplished? Is it the proper end of a House of Commons to make the landed and monied aristocracies the masters of the legislature? If so, keep the system as it is. Is it the object that no class shall predominate, but that all sections of the community shall be powerful in proportion to their numbers and their intelligence?

A new division and constitution of the electoral body is then imperative; and the more nearly equal the number of electors in each constituency the more nearly is the end attained. There is a sentiment concerned in the matter, without doubt, but it is that of justice. When just ends are aimed at by just means, and means well adapted to their attainment, all other sentiment will take care of itself. Sentiment, and of the best kind, is sure to gather round all things which are large diffusers of good among the human race.

Unfortunately, reformers no more than anti-reformers have yet learned to make great principles their object, and in this lies the secret in the affairs of communities no less than in those of individuals, of ineffectual struggles and mean results. The world will rally round a truly great principle, and be as much the better for the contest as for the attainment; but the petty objects by the pursuit of which no principle is asserted, are fruitless even when attained.

This unheaded third leader, another comment on the aftermath of the February Revolution see Nos. If the revolution, after its first difficulties are over, issues in a government which at once preserves order and accelerates progress—makes the laws obeyed, and labours actively to improve them—then in England, and in all Europe, faith in improvement, and determination to effect it, will become general, and the watchword of improvement will once more be, as it was of old, the emancipation of the oppressed classes.

If, on the other hand, the French people allow their republican institutions to be filched from them by artifice, or yield them up under the ascendancy of some popular chief, or under the panic caused by insurrection, or compromise them by an indefinite succession of disorders, repressed only by a succession of illegal violences on the part of the government, the tendency in this and other countries to the extension of political rights or the redress of social injustices, may be for a long time suspended.

The tide will set in in a retrograde direction, and a timid conservative instinct will probably take the place of even that moderate taste for improvement which did exist in a certain portion of the influential classes of this country before February last. The enemies of reform in England know all this, and their tactics are accommodated to it. Events in France itself are fortunately out of their power. If anything which they were able to do could make the revolution in France really a disastrous failure, it would be done. Lacking this, the most that there is any chance of accomplishing is to make it be thought a failure.

And to effect this, there is hardly any exaggeration or misrepresentation which is not resorted to. Those whose notions of the state of France are taken from the leading articles of almost any English newspaper, are much worse than ignorant, they are entirely misinformed. The writers do not even preserve a decent consistency with the facts published by themselves.

Oftener still, the denial, or positive disproof, given in the French papers, has not been noticed at all, while the calmuny has continued to be assumed as an indisputable fact. Instances of all these kinds of misrepresentations have occurred for example , with regard to the imputed atrocities of the late unsuccessful insurgents.

The English journals eagerly circulated them all—even the nonsense about waylaying the troops and the national guard to poison them with brandy, and such cock and bull stories, which bore their absurdity on the face of them—to which nothing but the extreme of terror and exasperation combined could have made the greatest gobemouche in Paris give credit for an instant. This, and all the tales about poisoned balls and other peculiarly murderous missiles made and used by the insurgents, 3 have been proved and are now admitted to be, not exaggerations, but absolute fictions, without the smallest pretence of a fact to ground them on.

There is not a single imputation of cruelty or ferocity of anything like a general character which is not now given up; the only assertions of the kind as yet unrefuted are of two or three insulated acts by individuals, and it remains to be seen whether even these will stand the test of judicial inquiry. Yet the English public are still led to believe, and do believe, that the insurrection was something unheard-of for its horrible barbarity; and the journals which led them into this belief take care not to disabuse them of it. Nor are the victors in the late contest more spared by calumny than the vanquished.

We are told with the coolest effrontery in leading articles about the number of persons who have been shot by order of the present French government 4 —it being a notorious fact that not one person has been shot, not one life taken, by the authority of government in consequence of the insurrection, while it is expected that none will be taken even after trial. The mildness and moderation of the sincerely republican party are as conspicuous in the present head of the government and his cabinet as in the provisional government and executive commission who preceded him. The readers of both whig and tory papers really ought to receive with distrust the statements which they find in those papers disadvantageous to France.

They ought to consider how great an interest those papers have, or think they have, in putting the worst colour on French affairs. It is the only chance of preventing Edition: current; Page: [ ] reform. There is no way now of discrediting reform without blackening France. The enemies of popular institutions have lost their most potent weapon, fear of the unknown. Democracy, in the popular signification of the term, exists as a fact, among our nearest neighbours.

There, under our eyes, is universal suffrage, or what is usually, though improperly, called by that name; a sovereign assembly, elected by the whole male population; no aristocracy as a clog on its movements; and the motto of this government is Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity. Here, then, is an actual trial of the experiment; with what success depends on circumstances of which no one is yet in a condition to judge; but if the result should be a social system, which, with any amount of allowance for human imperfection, does sincerely, and in a manner not to be mistaken, aim at guiding its practice by the spirit of its motto, surely it cannot have other than a beneficial influence?

Other countries will not fear anything worse for themselves from popular institutions than France suffers, or than they can be made to believe that France suffers. We may be certain, therefore, that the bad side of everything will be made the most of; that every idle or malicious rumour of mischief will be circulated as a fact, and when each particular rumour is proved to be false, the general impression made by such false assertions will be studiously kept up, and that, fairly or foully, events in France will continue to be represented in the blackest colours in which there is any hope of representing them successfully.

And such is, unfortunately, the general ignorance in this country respecting foreign affairs, that a large amount of misrepresentation may as yet be ventured upon without any considerable danger of detection. The reputation of Sir Robert Kane, and the public position which he has held, give a sort of scientific, and at the same time official, weight to his opinions, and therefore common sense and common arithmetic, coming from him, may carry an authority which, on the wretched Edition: current; Page: [ ] subject of Ireland, they seldom obtain by their intrinsic merits.

The clamourers against small holdings and the division of the land may perhaps give heed to him, when he proves by figures that small farms, in the existing circumstances of Ireland, are a necessity; since on the large farm system there would be employment for no more than two-fifths of the present agricultural population, the other three-fifths becoming paupers, to be supported from the produce raised by the labour of the former. They are afraid to let it be known they have money, lest their rent should be raised; they are afraid to improve their land, lest their rent should be raised; they are afraid to wear good clothes, lest they might appear to be deriving more from the produce of their farm than the miserable means of physical existence which their landlord will allow them to retain.

Hence the money hid in thatch and buried in barns. We are sorry to be obliged to tell him that, on this subject, he will get no help from Sir R. The evils Sir Robert can understand, but on the subject of remedies nothing can be more lame and impotent than his conclusion.

Most gladly would they do anything for Ireland, only there must not be a word said of the one vital point in the constitution of society as it exists in Ireland—the tenure of land. And Sir Robert Kane, although not privileged, like a minister of state, to be ignorant of his business, can propose nothing as a remedy for Ireland but to instruct the people in agriculture: as if any quantity of instruction in farming would make people improve their farms who, on his own showing, hide their money in the thatch, for fear that if their landlord knew of it he would raise the rent!

Is it not a mockery to talk of doing any good to the peasantry of a country in such a state of things as this? Who can expect agricultural improvement where the rent depends on the good pleasure of the landlords, and of such landlords? Yet Sir Robert Kane writes strongly and boldly, while confining himself to generals:.

The landlord [he says] has to learn that feudalism is extinct; that Great Britain and Ireland are the only places in the world where feudal landlordism is not extinct, except where the people are still slaves, and that there is a very large and intelligent class who think that the time is close at hand for reforming landlordism here also. The landed interests of this country, shut out by their insular position, by their ignorance and their pride, from making themselves acquainted with the forces of thought that have grown up within the last half-century, and which now govern the opinion of Europe, will only endanger their legitimate influence and position if they attempt to retain for the future the feudal privileges and territorial powers which were the natural social circumstances of the ancient times.

Even in Ireland, the hospital for the aged and disabled ideas of Europe, feudalism, and the divine power of land, is dying—its worn out form crushed by the iron power of the industrial spirit. This is excellent; but, unfortunately, Sir R. Kane does not mean it in the sense in which it can be of any practical use. For the old, worn out theory which he so justly repudiates, that landlords have the duties and are entitled to the rights of governors, he would substitute the doctrine that land falls under the same rules as any other article of commerce, and that neither law nor opinion has anything to do with the mode in which the owner manages it for his own interest.

A landowner is simply a dealer in land—a capitalist who has, either by himself or by his ancestor, invested his capital or his skill in land; he hires out the use of it to certain Edition: current; Page: [ ] parties, who pay him therefor, as they pay for the cloth for their clothes, or the furniture for their rooms; and not merely the right, but the plain duty of the landlord is, to get the highest possible price he can for his land, and to compel the payment of that price by law.

But we do say that this theory of the purely commercial character of contracts for land, wherever else it may be applicable, does not and cannot apply to a country in the exceptional situation of Ireland. The contract for rent, in Ireland, is not between the landlord and a capitalist farmer, who is able to take care of his own interest, and makes no bargain but such as he believes to be commercially advantageous to him.

It is not peasant farming that is objectionable; on this point we wholly agree with Sir R. The competition of superabundant numbers makes the tenants promise, and legally bind themselves, to pay nominal rents, exceeding not merely their means of payment, but the entire capabilities of the soil.

The public, therefore, is interested, and very greatly so, in the mode in which landlords manage their estates; and if it is their general practice to manage them on a system of which all that we see in Ireland is the natural result, it will not do to say, with Sir R. On 11 Aug. This list of subjects on which discussion is prohibited, or permitted only on one side, includes all the great political and social questions of the age. If only one set of opinions is to be permitted on any matter which involves the right of property, the rights or obligations of family, the question of Republicanism, of universal suffrage, even the particular constitution which the Assembly may hereafter adopt, or the rightfulness of abolishing that constitution—what are the subjects, worth discussing, on which freedom of political discussion is to exist?

The law is worse, with only this reservation in favour of freedom, than if there were no reservation at all; for the most tyrannical court of justice which could now exist in civilized Europe would reserve more than this. It is not declared that even the actions of the Legislature may be censured, but only those of the Executive; and with regard to laws or institutions, no liberty of censure is reserved at all.

To say that attacks are permitted, but not incitements to hatred and contempt, would be to say that discussion shall be lawful on condition that it be cold, dry, and unimpressive; that the dull and the indifferent shall be allowed to express opinions, but that persons of genius and feeling must hold their peace. How long shall we continue to see the regard for freedom of opinion, which all parties profess while they are on the oppressed side, thrown off by them all as soon as they are in the majority?

How much longer must we wait for an example, anywhere in Europe, of a ruler or a ruling party who really desire fair play for any opinions contrary to their own? Is it not shameful that no sooner has a reforming party accomplished as much change in the institutions of the country as itself deems desirable, than it proceeds to decree that every person shall be fined or imprisoned, who proposes either to go a single step further or a step back? We are aware of the allowances to be made for men lately engaged in a desperate and at one time a doubtful contest against a determined attempt at insurrection; 4 and we know too that this decree is avowedly a temporary measure, to be hereafter superseded by more deliberate legislation.

It is not, however, for English Conservatives, either Whig or Tory, to indulge any self-complacent triumph over French Republicans. The new act of the French Assembly does not make the laws of France on the freedom of the press worse than those of England have always been. The freedom of the press, in England, is entirely an affair of opinion and custom, not of law. It exists because the laws are not enforced. The law of political libel, as laid down in all the books, 6 is as inconsistent with free discussion as the laws of Russia.

There is no censure of any established institution or constituted authority which is not an offence by law. And within these few months it has been seen how eagerly the Edition: current; Page: [ ] English Parliament, under the influence of a far less degree of panic, have rushed to make the laws against what was deemed seditous speaking or writing more stringent than before. A government cannot be blamed for defending itself against insurrection. But it deserves the severest blame if to prevent insurrection it prevents the promulgation of opinion.

If it does so, it actually justifies insurrection in those to whom it denies the use of peaceful means to make their opinions prevail. Hitherto the French Government has been altogether in the right against all attempts to overthrow it. But by what right can the Assembly now reprobate any future attempt, either by Monarchists or Socialists, to rise in arms against the Government? It denies them free discussion. It says they shall not be suffered to bring their opinions to the touchstone of the public reason and conscience.

It refuses them the chance which every sincere opinion can justly claim, of triumphing in a fair field. It fights them with weapons which can as easily be used to put down the most valuable truth as the most pernicious error. It tells them that they must prevail by violence before they shall be allowed to contend by argument.

Who can blame persons who are deeply convinced of the truth and importance of their opinions, for asserting them by force, when that is the only means left them of obtaining even a hearing? When their mouths are gagged, can they be reproached for using their arms? The pamphlet here reviewed was the first of four lectures, all on the same subject, which he had given at the Edinburgh Philosophic Institution in By Alexander Bain, [London:] A. Taylor [in fact, John J. Accordingly, I threw off a number of copies, and gave them as presents, and exposed some for sale with Griffin, the publisher.

John Mill prepared a notice of the lecture in the Examiner newspaper. Few persons are so competent to treat this class of topics usefully and attractively, as Mr. His knowledge of the leading departments of physical science is accurate and profound; and he has a happy faculty for clearly explaining and familiarly illustrating what he knows. To these he adds the still rarer attribute, of a mind which looks ever through and beyond its immediate subject; scrupulously exact in details, yet not treating them like a mere man of detail, but as materials towards building up a nobler and happier scheme of human existence.

These general ideas and aspirations naturally come most distinctly to view in the present publication, which is but an introductory lecture. The description in the Autobiography of its founding follows immediately on that of the Owenite battles. The great interest of these debates predisposed some of those who took part in them, to catch at a suggestion thrown out by McCulloch, the political economist, that a society was wanted in London similar to the Speculative Society at Edinburgh, in which Brougham, Horner and others first cultivated public speaking.

Our experience at the Cooperative Society seemed to give cause for being sanguine as to the sort of men who might be brought together in London for such a purpose. McCulloch mentioned the matter to several young men of influence to whom he was then giving private lessons in political economy. Some of these entered warmly into the project, particularly George Villiers, afterwards Earl of Clarendon. It was, of course, not particularly the procedures, but the proved utility of the goals and experience of these societies that suggested them as models for the London Debating Society.

Consequently a few words about them are appropriate. While this hyperbolic prediction is not borne out by the histories of the Speculative Society, it makes it all the more regrettable that the records of the London Debating Society, which could make a similar, if lesser claim, are so meagre. On the evidence, one cannot tell how serious the suggestion was that the London Society model itself on the Edinburgh one, particularly when other models were closer to hand though perhaps not warmer to heart among the London Scots in Cambridge and Oxford, whence came many of the members of the London Debating Society and, to a lesser extent but even closer for Mill, in the Mutual Improvement Society.

However, Edinburgh deserves some attention as the original exemplar. It met weekly on Tuesdays after Fridays proved difficult in its own small premises, and initially heard papers as well as engaging in debate. Divisions had been introduced into its debates in , and many of the subjects, not surprisingly, parallel generally those later in London. The Cambridge Union was formed in , during the excitement of the initial postwar months, through a merging of three debating societies, the most important of which had taken the Edinburgh Speculative Society as its model.

As a result, the Union became a reading club from to , when the restrictions on dangerous topics were relaxed by making it permissible to debate political topics before , and then prior to twenty years before the date of debate. Later in the decade other familiars of Mill were active, not least Charles Buller, F.

Maurice, and John Sterling, the last well known in that context as a radical. The Union was the place to make a name, and many succeeded. Some of course failed, W. Thackeray being a well established case, his initial disaster presaging his notorious lifelong inability to speak in public.

The Oxford Union was less significant, being itself founded only in in obvious imitation of Cambridge. The topics of debate are reminiscent of those in Edinburgh and Cambridge, and foreshadow those in London. That the subject attracted much interest, ranging over Edition: current; Page: [ xxv ] political as well as literary grounds, indicates yet again the importance attached to such issues in the s. And the interest was not only among the participants, for the public took note of the activities of the rising generation. Though, as mentioned, the Oxford Union was less important as a model for London than the Edinburgh or Cambridge societies, the overall parallels are obviously significant, and some members of the London Debating Society had made a name at Oxford.

And the intention, to acquire confidence and control while dealing with great issues, was of course similar, though the London debates were, for the Oxbridge men, postgraduate, and therefore more mature but also less enthralling. To ensure the requisite heat, Mill and his friends tried to recruit Tories, but had more success in attracting a number of prominent men of diverse but generally liberal views. Nothing could seem more promising. But when the time for action drew near, and it was necessary to fix on a President, and find somebody to open the first debate, none of our celebrities would consent to perform either office.

Of the many who were pressed on the subject, the only one who could be prevailed on was a man of whom I knew very little [Donald Maclean], but who had taken high honours at Oxford and was said to have acquired a great oratorical reputation there; who some time afterwards became a Tory member of parliament. The important day arrived; the benches were crowded; all our great speakers were present, to judge of, but not to help our efforts. This threw a damp on the whole concern: the speakers who followed were few, and none of them did their best: the affair was a complete fiasco; and the oratorical celebrities we had counted on went away never to return, giving to me at least a lesson in knowledge of the world.

This unexpected breakdown altered my whole relation to the project. I had not anticipated taking a prominent part, or speaking much or often, particularly at first; but I now saw that the success of the scheme depended on the new men, and I put my shoulder to the wheel. I opened the second question [with No. It was very uphill work for some time. As to the frequency of his speaking, it is indicative that he felt it necessary in his last extant speech to the Society in to apologize for the great number of appearances he had made before it.

But he did more than speak. Occasionally they assembled on other days and infrequently at weekly intervals. The sessions began with a business meeting at 7 p. The audience was a more striking one in appearance than one can see elsewhere—the Houses of Lords and Commons furnish no remarkable assemblage. Young Mill is to open the debate on Friday week with an attack upon the aristocracy as a pernicious class.

He is about twenty years old, a great speaker, and considered to be a youth of very singular ability. Singular one can certainly tell him to be in a moment. I have only heard him speak a few words now and then when the rules of the Society were debated. He is an animated, determined-looking youth, and speaks, I am told, without hesitation, digression, ornament, or emphasis, in a tone to me in the little I heard almost ridiculously simple and with very odd but very considerable effect.

But our great speaker hitherto we have only had two meetings is young Mill, son of the Radical of that name at the India House. The youth only nineteen years old believes as he has been taught—that is, in the book of Jeremy; from which he preaches in all parts, being the apostle of the Benthamites. The smallest ornament or flourish is a sin with this school, and they draw their conclusions from their narrow premises with logical dryness and precision. The vote in the second debate, despite what Mill saw as a heavy liberal overloading, was 63 affirmative and 17 negative.

December 1847 to July 1858

There is no record of his remarks on this occasion, though one would expect that, as opener, he would have prepared some. Again no text survives. This, the end of the opening session, , is as far as the first printed record of the Society takes us. Mill says that in the second session, ,. Roebuck first became celebrated as one of the most eminent members of the London Debating Society. Cole, who met Mill first on 7 November, , and says he attended debates on 10, 18, and 22 November, , 55 and 10 January, respectively a Friday, Saturday, Thursday, and Wednesday , did not begin to record the topics until 19 January, , and did not join the Society until 25 May of that year, though thereafter he attended regularly.

The occasion of No. He began his own career in the London Debating Society at the first meeting of the next session, on 16 November, Mais M. On the second evening of the Debate there were two or three unhappy performers of nonsense of whom I remember little. I wish you had heard it. That appears to have been his last regular participation. I had had enough of speech-making, and was glad to carry on my private studies and meditations without any immediate call for outward assertion of their results. This remark, while it accurately indicates that Mill wrote little for the next year, is a trifle disingenuous, for his leaving the Society unquestionably was occasioned by his strongly expressed dissent from the positions of Roebuck and Sterling.

In the case of Sterling, a new and growing affection could not tolerate the outspoken and unqualified rhetoric of debate. The Society but not the experience was left behind by Mill. My delivery was and remained bad; but I could make myself listened to; and I even acquired a certain readiness of extemporary speaking, on questions of pure Edition: current; Page: [ xxxiv ] argument, and could reply offhand, with some effect, to the speech of an opponent: but whenever I had an exposition to make in which from the feelings involved or from the nature of the ideas to be developed, expression seemed important, I always most carefully wrote the speech and committed it to memory, and I did this even with my replies, when an opportunity was afforded by an adjourned debate.

Therefore many of my speeches were of some worth as compositions, to be set against a bad and ungraceful manner. I believe that this practice greatly increased my power of effective writing. The habit of composing speeches for delivery gave me not only an ear for smoothness and rhythm but a practical sense for telling sentences and an immediate criterion of their telling property, by their effect on a mixed audience. The early ones are stiff and unresponsive, vehement through shrillness rather than power, and shaped more by the extrinsic evidence supplied by his teachers than by the intrinsic evidence of the strong yet supple mind.

It is of course almost as difficult to judge delivery from a manuscript as to record it in writing. This kind of self-deprecation appears more frequently in the first speeches—in the exordia of Nos. The anti-rhetorical stance of the novice is also evident: in No. Noteworthy are his arguing in No. Compare a passage from No. But it has usually been deemed sufficient to point to the British Constitution, and to beg the three following questions in relation to it: 1. Fine flourishes of the logical wand are seen in No.

It may be observed, of course, that closing remarks are much better conceived on the spot, being most powerful when they take into account the past and future of the debate; probably Mill left them to the impulse of the moment, although there are some effective elements in the drafts.

One may instance a conciliatory note , a supplication to the uncommitted as well as to allies , and that favourite radical ploy an appeal to the inevitable future An unusual note is struck in No. Certainly where the speeches show him attempting to anticipate a reaction from his audience one must assume that he in fact modified his words ad hoc. Non-rational persuasion is, of course, present. In one place he uses a fable that he felt telling enough to be used almost without modification in print nine years later. One can only guess at the background of his remark in No.

Must we either renounce our virtues or our meals? Do they. Canning—if I were at this moment in his presence I would ask him. In such speeches we would not expect much evidence of the fairness or, in the judgment of those who are suspicious, the appearance of fairness for which Mill later strove, 85 although it is traditional in debating, of course, to make some claim to disinterest, even when the basis of the game is evident enough to all.

His major goal in these years, however, was the exposure and uprooting of error, and many will find the matter of his speeches more revealing than the manner. The basic judgments round which the earlier speeches are structured will quickly be recognized as those of the philosophic radical group. I dare him to the proof, but if by theory, he means general principles I agree with him. In all of this and there is much one might miss the independence of mind that becomes increasingly apparent.

And, of course, it is not judicious to assume that agreement with his teachers and friends signals mere parroting; thought and discussion, even if directed down set channels, developed the powers that enabled Mill to originate, assess, and revise rather than merely adopt. So it is, for instance, with his views on population in the debates with the Owenites; see especially his reference to the failure of the prudential check to operate in Ireland It is easy also to detect a new note in another of his arguments against the Owenites, when he objects to the Cooperative system because.

I am not one of those, who set up liberty as an idol to be worshipped, and I am even willing to go farther than most people in regulating and controlling when there is a special advantage to be obtained by regulation and control. I presume, however, that no one will deny that there is a pleasure in enjoying perfect freedom of action; that to be controlled, even if it be for our own good, is in itself far from pleasant, and that other things being alike, it is infinitely better to attain a given end by leaving people to themselves than to attain the same end by controlling them.

It is delightful to man to be an independent being. And On Liberty seems even less far in the future in other passages. The good of mankind requires that it should be so. And he is certainly on his own when he asserts the importance of poetry to Edition: current; Page: [ xlii ] education, referring explicitly to his own need, the education of the feelings I have learned from Wordsworth that it is possible by dwelling on certain ideas to keep up a constant freshness in the emotions which objects excite and which else they would cease to excite as we grew older—to connect cheerful and joyous states of mind with almost every object, to make every thing speak to us of our own enjoyments or those of other sentient beings, and to multiply ourselves as it were in the enjoyments of other creatures: to make the good parts of human nature afford us more pleasure than the bad parts afford us pain—and to rid ourselves entirely of all feelings of hatred or scorn for our fellow creatures.

My own change since I thought life a perpetual struggle—how much more there is to aim at when we see that happiness may coexist with being stationary and does not require us to keep moving. We all know the power of early impressions over the human mind and how often the direction which they give, decides the whole character, the whole life of the man.

The greatest men of every age, generally bear a family likeness to their contemporaries: the most splendid monuments of genius which literature can boast of, bear almost universally in a greater or less degree the stamp of their age. Hints at the reassessment of his heritage are also seen when he conducts his defence of Bentham in No. Through the years when he was debating, Mill walked seemingly increasing distances daily, weekly, and during holidays.

I passed most Sundays, throughout the year, in the country, taking long rural walks on that day even when residing in London. In fact, through his life, he went afoot and apace, though one must infer most of the activity from incidental and indirect evidence. There are, however, extant journals of five early holiday tours, all but the last in mid-summer: Sussex July, ; Berkshire; Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Edition: current; Page: [ xliv ] and Surrey July, ; Yorkshire and the Lake District ca.

On the last one, setting out alone, he was met by Sarah and John Austin for the main part. Neither destinations nor routes were by chance; internal evidence reveals consultation of guide books and maps. That Mill took such tours is as unsurprising as it is commendable; his having kept records of them may appear to some both unexpected and unmeritorious. Also, unlike many similarly occupied in England, he gives little space to the weather. Rain is sometimes troublesome, though seldom sufficient to cancel excursions.

As one would expect, flora including trees attract his notice, and even serve as the basis of comparison. But the comparison is too humble, and does it injustice. His interest and confidence grew, so that by No. Towns and villages are in his narrative mainly places where inns are found and whence one can walk, but there is a sufficient account of their plans and leading features.

And observation is much more common than participation in local opportunities: one exception is immersion in the cold chalybeate water at Tunbridge Wells Mill was never one to seek promiscuous society, and there is here little about people. So far interest will take us in explanation of the journal keeping, but what of habit and use? As seen above, Mill was trained by his father to keep daily records when afoot and abroad, and it seems prima facie probable that these journals were kept primarily for his own use.

They are, like diaries and personal memoranda, utile in recording data for later consideration and reconsideration. His occasional rough illustrations seem to be designed as prods to recollection, and one may stretch a point to say that his reticences most notably the boating escapade with Cole at Edition: current; Page: [ xlvii ] may cover matters for which reminders were unnecessary and which were better left unrecorded. Field naturalists will be pleased with those entries recording botanical finds, where Mill is probably expanding entries in notebooks like those that exist for other excursions.


Other, sometimes tenuous, evidence suggests that Mill saw journal keeping as an exercise in composition, the goal being to record impressions and some events in a clear narrative form; doing so evidently meant writing the full account from jottings, for there is unmistakable evidence that he went over notes or a draft when composing the extant versions. I have since discovered that it [a ridge of high land] does lie just beyond Cobham.

Practice made better, if not perfect. Mill increasingly founded aesthetic judgments on more fully considered grounds. The implied audience is increasingly evident, subjective responses multiply, and metaphors appear. His self-conscious training is most obvious in the frequent flourishes, a few of which may be quoted. In No. Another personal use related to rhetorical practice is undeniable: Mill was developing his sensibilities through testing and training his perception.

In the tradition, behind the natural forms lie the ideal ones, towards which a painter turns. The secret, I suspect, is, variety without tameness. This passage points to another desideratum. Were there a single house on its banks, its peculiar charm would be gone: it would be beautiful, but no longer Wastwater. All of the foregoing suggests that the journals were used for personal exploration and development.

But, as suggested above, there is evidence that someone else was expected to read and profit from the final versions. Most of the other intimations of audience are muted, but seem not merely tokens of rhetorical practice. Some of these passages evolve into fuller descriptions, more lyrically conceived and in part executed. Later in the same journal there is direct instruction as to response as well as action:. Now stand on the extreme verge of one of the rocks, and look down, you will see.

Look to the left, and you will see. But now look rather to your right. The first! Since there has been a world, these breakers have succeeded one another uninterruptedly; and while there is a world they shall never cease. These remarks seem indeed to be directed at a specific audience, and if one recalls when Mill was first experiencing the love of a man for a woman, it seems not at all fanciful to think that the last two or three, and most surely No. Mill is coy about the authorship of the article , though he must have known that it was by W.

Fox, the editor, who had introduced Mill to the Taylors in and had been a contributor to the Westminster Review from its inception. It seems reasonable to assume that such a comment was intended for a close friend, and she is the most likely, particularly in the light of external evidence. That tour concluded in the New Forest of Hampshire, where Mill gathered some flowers. Whatever uses Mill may have had in mind, there is no question that we can use the journals as evidence of biographical fact and as basis of inference about his behaviour and development.

One of his frequent devices is comparison, which normally involves memory of past experience. So little is documented about his early life and views that even the trivial takes on interest. Memories of France confirm the deep impression it had made upon him. The tone is valedictory and autumnal as Mill thinks much of death, both he and his wife being manifestly ill of pulmonary disease, and one recalls that this is the period when they planned together the work by which they wished to be remembered. For example, one Edition: current; Page: [ lv ] thinks of the Autobiography when one reads his condemnation of onesideness , or his account of the threat to a true picture of human relations that gossip poses by magnifying insignificant particulars And the eulogies of his wife in that work are here forecast when he mentions the value of vision , in his estimation one of her great qualities, and acknowledges his debt to her for enlarging his ideas and feelings, while regretting that she could not give him the same expansion in power of execution Without attempting to exhaust the intimations, it may be mentioned that On Liberty is suggested by the references to the deadliness of custom in the East and the difficulty of removing received opinions , as well as by the description of the progress of opinion as an uphill spiral , and the praise of freedom of expression Key matters in Utilitarianism appear: for instance, Mill presents the ideal of humanity as inspiring , , and insists on the vital necessity of considering the quality as well as the quantity of happiness, even using what became one of his famous comparisons, that between Socrates and a pig Perhaps most surprising is the amount of comment on religion, and especially on the hope of immortality for instance, and ; but one recalls that once again a later work, the Three Essays on Religion, was on their minds, and the strong smell of mortality was in their nostrils.

Finally, and less surprising, are his comments on sexual equality , to be manifested in many a speech and in The Subjection of Women. Because Mill matters to most people as a political philosopher and sage, such an effect is almost inevitable, and need not be regretted. But there is in the journals and speeches other matter with other messages.

Mill is revealed—not that he would like the term—as a social being, caught up in the excitement of youth, curious about his world, looking about rather than within, and responding to people as well as ideas. He shows, however, what none of those does in the same degree, an extraordinary intellectual sensitivity, almost unmarked by egocentricity. The highest standards he set were for himself. While some of them have been published in the twentieth century, very few have appeared in scholarly form, and never in a comprehensive edition permitting comparison.

It consists of a daily account, sent in batches with covering letters to his father. Mill first recorded the events of the major part of the trip in a notebook, which Anna J. Mill acquired from a London dealer in and willed to the St. Andrews University Library. The second volume in that description probably was the notebook containing lecture notes on logic, which was included in the large portion of papers from that sale bought by the British Library of Political and Economic Science London School of Economics , and placed in its Mill-Taylor Collection.

It was a bundle containing thirty unprinted speeches delivered by John Stuart Mill to the London Debating Society in his own autograph—on which society and its value to him, see the Autobiography. You will find there what a change in him was produced by the reading of Wordsworth. I have the MS of a speech on Wordsworth in which all this is set out. There is an able, if Puritan attack on Byron. You will find in the Autobiography a reference to an impressive debate with Thirlwall the historian.

All the others are good stuff—on the Church, lawyers, radical reform, the use of history, university education. The debate with Thirlwall I expect I shall print in the Economic Journal as it is historically important because of its attack on Robert Owen and its analysis of Malthus. Some of the speeches are written on the backs of letters from George Grote, Charles Austin et al. I sold two of them for two guineas which was the price I paid for them all.

The Oxford Press wanted me to make a little volume of them to be called the early speeches of J. But I shall have a jolly afternoon reading them to Morley when I come back from Paris and reminiscing on the Victorian age. Laski, it should be said immediately, appears never to have made a list of the manuscripts, or to have examined them carefully to see, for example, if the texts overlapped. The puzzles begin with the letter just quoted; since it was written less than Edition: current; Page: [ lix ] three weeks after the sale, the discussion between the Oxford University Press and Laski must have been perfunctory.

I am glad you agree with me about my Mill mss. I propose to print two small speeches that have a definite historical importance and, for love of Felix [Frankfurter], to give the Law Review a jolly little piece on the influence of lawyers. Otherwise I think they had better be an heirloom. The B. Museum has been after me for them, but vainly.

At this time also he gave one page of manuscript notes No. As there is no Fabian Society typescript, and the manuscript is in the Ogden Collection at University College London, it seems likely that this speech was sold by Laski to C. In Laski published No. Presumably Laski decided he had exhausted the public potential of the speeches, and began, evidently without recording the gifts, to give manuscripts to friends.

Mineka to use them. Of the twenty-six, one No. Laski may not have counted it or the fragments now lost that are represented by typescripts. On the assumption that we have at least some part of every speech Laski bought, 14 we do not know the location of five whole manuscripts Nos. As indicated above, there are typescripts representing all the items Laski did not publish except Nos. Ruling out those that Laski is known to have retained, one concludes that the two he sold immediately are Nos. And we have typescripts of all those he published except for parts of Nos.

The anomalies are typescripts without corresponding manuscripts; 15 of these, Nos. The regrettable history of the documents from to the s may then be summarized:. Indeed, it is only by a lucky chance or two that the materials have survived in even their present incomplete state. Given the lacunae, one cannot pretend to certainty about the texts of those speeches that exist only in typescript or in typescript and the form edited by Laski , or about the relations of fragments to one another. The physical characteristics of the materials, however, plus internal evidence and the records that remain of the debates discussed in the Introduction above , make possible the inferences lying behind the texts as here edited.

Andrews University Library in Lot our No. Lot No. Holyoke College at the instigation of Dr. Anna J. Mill, who taught English there. Its loss is much to be deplored, as nothing is known of this trip by Mill. Until then it was undoubtedly in the hands of Mary Taylor, who gave Elliot access to the Mill-Taylor material in her possession, putting an embargo only on the family letters.

Many of the draft letters used by Elliot were obtained by the Brotherton Library, Leeds, but this manuscript was evidently not among them, and its location is not now known. The headnote gives the provenance of the copy-text, lists other versions, and provides the immediate context, with other closely relevant information.


The notes, at the foot of the page, are substantive and textual. The textual notes normally record variant Edition: current; Page: [ lxiv ] readings, with alphabetic markers in the text signalling the word or words for which the variant reading is a substitute these too begin anew in each item or section of an item. The texts themselves have been determined in ways appropriate to their kind and provenance. The Journals and Notebooks. In these cases Nos. The Debating Speeches. Here there are three sources, though not for each text and not of equal authority.

Where there are manuscripts, they are used; when there are not, the Fabian Society typescripts are used. In only two cases Nos. So it is compatible not only with standard editing practice but also with informed judgment to choose the typescripts rather than the published versions as copy-text. The Diary.

Here again there is no choice, only the printed version being available. Similarly we have not in No. When what is extant is merely a series of notes as in No. Particular changes are listed in Appendix C, with explanations except when the change has been made for obvious reasons of sense including easily identified typographical errors or slips of the pen.

To save the reader trouble and the buyer expense, certain general rules have been adopted, and silent changes made. These include: In manuscript texts where there are gaps resulting from rips, square brackets enclose the conjectural reading. When the sense is implied by the context, punctuation is supplied at line-ends, at the end of paragraphs, and where interlineations occur. Superscripts are lowered to the line. To conform to modern practice, italic type is used for the titles of works published separately, while quotation marks are placed around titles of parts of separate publications.

Foreign words and phrases are normalized to italic, except in item No. In the journal, walking tours, and diary, the dates that begin entries are styled Edition: current; Page: [ lxvi ] uniformly; unusual or mistaken place names are retained, but the correct or normal versions are given in notes. Also in the French Journal the form of the datelines has been standarized.

In the French Notebook Mill commonly in the margin repeated the date of the entry and gave place names; these have been omitted. In these volumes, the variant notes at the bottom of the page record different kinds of substantive readings. In the French Journal and Notebook No. Any further information is given in italics within square brackets. The same procedure is used in the Lecture Notes on Logic No. In the debating speeches, variant notes are used when there is a Fabian Society transcript and a version edited by H.

In such cases the typescripts serve as copy-text, and substantive differences are recorded only when the wording of the latter has been preferred. See, e. Finally, in this category, the variants in No. The walking tours Nos. Appendix A gives the physical details about the manuscripts. Appendix B supplies enclosures from and letters pertaining to the French journal and notebook. Appendix C lists and explains the textual emendations, while Appendix D is an index of persons and works cited in the text.

Finally, there is an analytic Index, prepared by Dr. I particularly wish to thank the Department of Geography of the University of Toronto for preparing the maps. As ever my work has been gladdened and lessened by the warming and unstinted aid of individuals; among the host, D. Conlon, Stephen R. Conway, Eileen M. Curran, Lawrence Dewan, H. Jackson, Bruce L. Mineka, Penny Nettlefold, Pamela G. Nunn, Eric W. Roberts, Ann Christine Robson, S. Solecki, the late Leonard Woodbury, and R.

As is their wont, members of the Editorial Committee have enriched and corrected me: for these volumes I am especially indebted to R. McRae and Ann P. Robson; indeed to the latter, I owe an incalculable debt for her uncalculated sharing of journals, debates, and walks. We are fully aware that these volumes would not have reached maturity without the strong financial support of the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada, which has brought the immeasurable benefits and joys of collaboration with the members of the Mill Project.

My greatest scholarly debt is to a great editor who is no longer with us, Anna J. Mill: she collaborated with me for many long years, demonstrating the extraordinary care, wisdom, and correcting wit that made her reputation as a mediaeval scholar and as an always informative and stimulating student of Mill only, she would say, a colitteral relative. I have used extensively and unblushingly her editorial work on the Journal and Notebook the latter of which she herself purchased, and willed to the St. Andrews University Library , and her preliminary work on both text and notes of the walking-tour journals two of which she was instrumental in finding homes for in Mt.

Holyoke College, where she pursued her academic career, and in St. Andrews, her alma mater , and on the Lecture Notes on Logic. She was to have been a co-editor of these volumes, and to her warm and vibrant memory they are dedicated. MSS Journal and St. The text below combines the two manuscripts: the Journal is used as the primary text; parallel entries in the Notebook, when they exist, provide a secondary text, given in smaller type immediately after the Journal entry; for the periods not covered in the Journal, the Notebook is elevated to primary text.

The covering letters to James Mill in the Journal are treated as part of the text; other letters in the Journal are given in footnotes to the passages where they occur. Entries in the Notebook for the period 20 August to 10 September and 19 to 25 September were corrected by George Bentham. Materials in the Journal and the Notebook ancillary to the dated entries are given in Appendix B.

I have kept a pretty accurate journal, as you will see. May At the Elephant and Castle on the Kent Road an officer in the army joined us. When we reached Dartford we were asked if we chose to breakfast; but we did not. After Dartford the country becomes very pleasant, and we have many pretty views of the river Thames. At Canterbury the coachman begged us to ride outside, as four ladies had come as far as Canterbury in another coach, and if we would ride outside we might all go in one coach.

We consented, and he returned us the difference of the fare. I had 16 shillings to pay for luggage. From Canterbury to Dover the country is extremely hilly. We did not, as we expected, pass through Margate. Dover is a very dirty place. We had a very good pair of beds. Ensor, 1 set off with him for France in a Dover coach professing to pass through Margate, Ramsgate, and Deal. There was an old lady in the coach, going to Boughton near Canterbury.

At the Elephant and Castle on the Kent road a gentleman in the army joined us. The road is not at all pretty as far as Dartford; there we come to the banks of the Thames, and it begins to be extremely pretty. We went on to Canterbury, a large town, very pretty. Here the coachman begged us to ride outside, because the whole inside of the coach was taken: we did so accordingly, and he returned us the difference of the fare. From Canterbury to Dover the country is very hilly.

We did not, as I expected, pass through Margate, Ramsgate nor Deal; I suppose because there were no passengers for any of those places. The instant I set my foot on board, I began to feel a little sick; I therefore immediately went into a birth, lay down, and shut my eyes. I thus avoided sea-sickness: though indeed I felt a little sick at stomach during the latter part of our voyage: for our passage was so rough that even Mr.

Ensor was sick, which he has not been for 25 years. The rolling of the ship was so great that at one time half the deck was 3 feet under water. We went to a very good hotel, that of Detant, au Grand Cerf, Rue Royale, Calais, where we dined, and our trunks were taken to the Custom House, but as every thing was exactly in the condition you put it, after the officers sent it back, I do not think they searched it.

How Avengers Infinity War Should Have Ended - Animated Parody

No one offered to search our pockets. The town has a very large open market place: The city walls are a pleasant promenade. The room was furnished, chiefly, more in the English than in the French manner. Melle Detant spoke very good English. We accomplished the passage in three hours; it was an exceedingly rough passage; so much so that even Mr. Ancient and modern terms for these messages are diverse, but several examples illustrate the parallels between ancient and modern practices.

Both Greek poleis and early modern nations published laws and decrees, both used military insignia, and both organized public ceremonies to legitimize magistrates as well as to inaugurate them. As James Madison understood, communication of this kind was a means of achieving political and social unity. It was affective in nature, whereas communication of the first kind was informative.

Among the informative means of ancient communication are letters and epigraphical texts; among affective means are gestures and music. Another feature linking some means of communication is the resemblance between human practices and those of mankind's remote, primate ancestors. Informative and affective communications differ in their relation to the physical environment. The informative kind transmits messages through space; the affective kind may maintain relations over time.

In the second case, the purpose is to cooperate or persuade, not to inform or coerce, and the outcome is a confirmation or change in relations, not a transmission. Just as the first kind is economic and political, the second is religious and cultural. Written communications appear in both circumstances. One potential effect of the use of writing is the dissemination of copies that inform and empower those in the hubs or centers of a network.

Another is the assertion, and also the extension, of the privilege of literacy. Images, too, may be standardized and multiplied, and the displayed in contexts that complicate their meaning and also their social impact. Just as the spread of writing is an outstanding feature of the first two millenia covered by this volume, so the spread of standardized messages is an outstanding feature of the millenium thereafter; that is, the Hellenistic period followed by the Roman Empire. Religious communications differ from other kinds with respect to networks and also to range.

Religious communications commonly have two recipients: one, a god or spirit, and the other, fellow worshippers or priests who may observe or overhear. As a result, religious communication is oblique: what is said to one part must be redirected towards, and reinterpreted by, another. All statements are effectively double, and some are obscure. Oracles depend on this obscurity. Dedications and other acts of ostentatious piety are costly signals, like the signals conveyed by royal monuments. Signals of this sort permit the signaler to accumulate prestige; at the same time, they give material benefit to the community.

Religious communication in later periods has some of these features, but it lacks the outstanding feature found in antiquity: ubiquity. Most ancient historical records are, formally speaking, religious records: the doings of the gods; the outcome of rituals, portents, and divine judgements; the countless plagues and famines caused by divine displeasure, or victories and harvests due to divine complaisance.

Religion is everywhere in the ancient communications stream, as advertising today; or propaganda was at the height of communism and fascism. In Mesopotamia , rulers wrote letters to the gods. In Greece , gods inspired verses for the edification of oracular consultants. In both these societies, as well as in Egypt , gods made suburban boat trips, and worshippers for their part gratefully undertook long-distance pilgrimages. Gods were no less liberal in response, using birds in flight and nodding statues, earthquakes and sheep livers.

If religion was important from the very beginning of ancient communication, a second distinctive feature emerged mostly in the last millennium or so BCE, under the Achaemenid Persian and Roman empires, and also the empire of the Maurya in India. Although there had always been bilingual populations at the interstices of ancient societies, such as the Phoenicians and later the Greeks, now there were bilingually administered empires, like Persia , which used Persian and Aramaic, and Rome which used Latin and Greek. In such empires, religious life, too, was more complicated than in earlier states, and commerce was more active, better organized, and farther-reaching.

Communication tools like maps and coins became more sophisticated as well as more common. These changes were not only extensive but also intensive. In the most populous and wealthy regions, like Egypt , the intermingling of populations from the Hellenistic period onward led not just to bilingualism, but to biculturalism, too. The quantitative change was so great that the quality of communications must have changed also: it became cross-cultural. For the first time in antiquity indeed, in history , fiduciary coinage appeared, the result of innovations in Roman financial policy during the third and fourth centuries CE.

Moreover, for the first time, Greeks and Romans came into extensive, permanent contact with the interiorr of the Levant, the Iranian plateau, and India, and with religions notably more different from their own than those they had encountered in Celtic Europe or the Punic Mediterranean. The spread of Christianity to Roman cities was one eventual result. At the end of antiquity, the Mediterranean basin had more money that it would again until the early modern period, and more places with Christian majorities than it ever would again.

Peachin 4. For essays on medieval communications, a subject of comparable scope, see Mostert , Canepa a. On Late Antiquity: Ellis and Kidner 5. Rabinow A contrary view: Chase-Dunn and Hall 6. Early evolution of the field: Innis ; Inose For anthropology and sociology, see Vansina , who addresses communications explicitly; Geertz , who addresses them implicitly. Note Shepherd at al. A possibly unique philosophical treatment: Habermas a,b. A general treatment of tis much-discussed subject: Manetti Federalist Papers , no.

Phaedo b Note, in this connection, Andreu and Virlouvet Note Brosius Figures 4. Flower For modern protocols, see Galloway Berners-Lee For epigraphy in its social context, see Meyer A general study of gestures: Bolens Gestures in other nonverbal forms: Catoni Maynard-Smith and Harper Naiden , Actes de la table ronde, Institut Ausonius, Pessac Ancient writing as communication: Arslan ed. La "parola" delle imagini e delle forme di scrittura. Mnicazione nel mondo antico.

Messina ; Bresson et al. Bordeaux In: Rafael Capurro - John Holgate eds. Angeletics as an Approach to the Phenomenology of Communication. Munich, , Eine wunderbare Aussicht. Jetzt schreiben wir das Jahr Seit dem 4. Jahrhundert n. Als Wallfahrtsort entdeckt das Jahrhundert den Berg Nebo neu. Profane Tauschorte: die Botschaft der Dinge. Ein arabischer Suq ist der profane Tauschort par excellence. Sie sind es, die am Versammlungs- und Tauschort der Khane mit den Einheimischen zusammentreffen.

Das Angebot macht auf die dem Waren-Ding eingeschriebene Botschaft aufmerksam. Seit dem 2. Jahrhundert v. Aber schon ab Mitte des 3. Jahrtausends v. Der Ruinenort: die Botschaft der Spur Palmyra. Volney , Jahrhunderts vor? Hier findet Volney Gastfreundschaft und Unterkommen. Zerstreut lassen wir unsere Blicke schweifen, Versunkenheit im Anblick des Ruinenfeldes stellt sich nicht mehr ein. In Europa aber werden ihre Berichte kaum zur Kenntnis genommen.

Gehen so die Werke der Menschen zu Grunde? Verschwinden so Reiche und Nationen? Das Wenn Reisende des Man bedurfte der Materialisierung in Form des dinglich-konkreten Spuren-Feldes, um sich der Geschichte zu vergewissern. Mensching , Egger, Stephan: Auf den Spuren der verlorenen Zeit. Frankfurt am Main Scheck, Frank Rainer: Jordanien. Ostfildern, 4. Aufl, Oxford University Press Preface 1.

The Invention of a Ritual 2. Venues and Offerings 3. Prayers and Answers 4. A God Says No 5. Rules, Rewards, and Experts 6. Markers and Messes 7. A Detective Story 8. The Demise of a Ritual. This book deals with a subject that evokes the slaughter of animals and the feasts of the Homeric poems and Classical Athens. Yet the most common Greek word for killing an animal for a good was thuein "to make smoke.

So are Latin "fumus", or "smoke" and thus or "incense. The two leading views of Greek sacrifice say little of this smoke. One of these views, Walter Brukert's, presupposes that Greek ways of making animal offerings descended from Stone Age hunters. As implied by the title of one of Burkert's books, Homo Necans , the Greek worshipper was a prototypical killer. The other leading view, that of Marcel Detienne and the late Jean-Pierre Vernant, supposes that Greek ways of making animals offerings, and also eating them, unified the citizenry of the Classical city-states.

The Greek worshipper was the prototypical democrat. The same conclusions would hold for religions with similar rites, such as the religion of pagan Rome , or even of ancient Israel. Scholars of Greek religion had other reasons to doubt these views, and even to doubt the importance given to animal offerings. Burkert, Vernant, and Detienne trafficked in social science with more or less staying power; and Burkert did the same with natural science. Archeologists had always known there was more to worship than animal sacrifice.

Literary critics knew that the stress on rituals, coupled with a divorce of ritual from mythic antecedents, had done a kind of violence to Greek experience, which was as much about gods and heroes known though myth as it was about rites known through anthropology and sociology.

  • Online Library of Liberty.
  • Navigation menu?
  • Glossary of French expressions in English;
  • 1001 blagues.

And they knew that the gods of the poets and historians responded to acts of sacrifice less predictably than in the two prevailing views. Further discussion at chapter 6 here. In contrast, Greek tuphein and its English cognate, "smoke," have no sacrificial character. I The Invention of a Ritual. When an ancient Greek prayed, he or she might burn an offering. After noticing the smoke from the fire, a god might grant the prayer and accept the offering, or he might not. Odysseus experienced both responses. At the start of the Illiad , when the Achaeans suffered from a plague, Odysseus brought a hecatomb of animals to the priest of Apollo, Chryses, hoping that the pries would sacrifice them and pray to Apollo for relief.

Chryses was a likely intercessor, for the god had inflicted the plague after Agamemnon refused to release his daughter, a captive. Odysseus returned the girl to her father. With this wrong righted, the priest performed the rite, and Apollo "heard him," ending the plague. After he escaped from the Cyclops, he sacrificed the ram that had carried him to safety from the monster's cave - an apt thanksgiving. When the smoke rose into the air, Zeus "paid no heed. This time, Odysseus was at a disadvantage. Before, he was not. It did not matter what the offering was. The Achaeans gave some number of ca cattle, Odysseus a particular ram.

Other worshippers in Homer gave incense and a woven dress. Odysseus and Chryses offered the hecatomb on behalf of the army, but Odysseus offered the ram on behalf of his crew. The conduct of the worshippers did matter.

Heren Mode & Kleding

The Achaeans had satisfied Apollo, but Odysseus had not satisfied Zeus. The god also mattered. After Apollo granted Chryses's prayer, the Achaeans sang and danced. Sacrifice let the worshippers commune with the god. Or, if the god were displeased, as Zeus was, the rite failed to achieve this effect. The two sides communicated, but did not commune.

The same animal: Stanford ad 9. Whence have these prejudices against you arisen? For certainly this great report and talk has not arisen while you were doing nothing more out of the way than the rest, unless you were doing something other than most people; so tell us. So listen. And perhaps I shall seem to some of you to be joking; be assured, however, I shall speak perfect truth to you. What kind of wisdom is this? Just that which is perhaps human wisdom. For perhaps I really am wise in this wisdom; and these men, perhaps,. You know Chaerephon, I fancy.

And you know the kind of man Chaerephon was, how impetuous in whatever he undertook. Now the Pythia replied that there was no one wiser. And about these things his brother here will bear you witness, since Chaerephon is dead. For I am conscious that I am not wise either much or little. What then does he mean by declaring that I am the wisest? He certainly cannot be lying, for that is not possible for him. I went to one of those who had a reputation for wisdom,. I seem, then, in just this little thing to be wiser than this man at any rate, that what I do not know I do not think I know either.

So I had to go, investigating the meaning of the oracle, to all those who were reputed to know anything. So I must relate to you my wandering as I performed my Herculean labors, so to speak, in order that the oracle might be proved to be irrefutable. For after the public men I went to the poets, those of tragedies, and those of dithyrambs,. So, taking up the poems of theirs that seemed to me to have been most carefully elaborated by them, I asked them what they meant, that I might at the same time learn something from them.

Now I am ashamed to tell you the truth, gentlemen; but still it must be told. For there was hardly a man present, one might say, who would not speak better than they about the poems they themselves had composed. So again in the case of the poets also I presently recognized this,. And at the same time I perceived that they, on account of their poetry, thought that they were the wisest of men in other things as well, in which they were not. So I went away from them also thinking that I was superior to them in the same thing in which I excelled the public men. And in this I was not deceived; they did know what I did not, and in this way they were wiser than I.

I replied then to myself and to the oracle that it was better for me to be as I am. Therefore I am still even now going about and searching and investigating at the god's behest anyone, whether citizen or foreigner, who I think is wise; and when he does not seem so to me, I give aid to the god and show that he is not wise.

Catalogue des Éditions Delcourt by Editions Delcourt - Issuu

And by reason of this occupation I have no leisure to attend to any of the affairs of the state worth mentioning, or of my own , but am in vast poverty. And in addition to these things, the young men who have the most leisure, the sons of the richest men, accompany me of their own accord, find pleasure in hearing people being examined, and often imitate me themselves, and then they undertake to examine others; and then, I fancy, they find a great plenty of people who think they know something, but know little or nothing.

From among them Meletus attacked me, and Anytus and Lycon, Meletus angered on account of the poets, and Anytus on account of the artisans and the public men,. And whether you investigate. Now so far as the accusations are concerned which my first accusers made against me, this is a sufficient defence before you; but against Meletus, the good and patriotic, as he says, and the later ones, I will try to defend myself next.

So once more, as if these were another set of accusers, let us take up in turn their sworn statement. It is about as follows: it states that Socrates is a wrongdoer because he corrupts the youth and does not believe in the gods the state believes in, but in other. Such is the accusation. But let us examine each point of this accusation.

He says I am a wrongdoer because I corrupt the youth. And that this is so I will try to make plain to you also. Come here, Meletus, tell me: don't you consider it. For it is evident that you know, since you care about it. For you have found the one who corrupts them, as you say, and you bring me before these gentlemen and accuse me; and now, come, tell who makes them better and inform them who he is.

Do you see, Meletus, that you are silent and cannot tell? And yet does it not seem to you disgraceful and a sufficient proof of what I say, that you have never cared about it? But tell, my good man, who. Are these gentlemen able to instruct the youth, and do they make them better? But how about this?

Now that I do not lie against God I have the following proof: I have revealed to many of my friends the counsels which God has given me, and in no instance has the event shown that I was mistaken. Once on a time when Chaerephon made inquiry at the Delphic oracle concerning me, in the presence of many people Apollo answered that no man was more free than I, or more just, or more prudent.

However, do not believe the god even in this without due grounds, but examine the god's utterance in detail. Who in the world more free,—for I accept neither gifts nor pay from any one? Whom would you with reason regard as more just than the one so reconciled to his present possessions as to want nothing beside that belongs to another? And would not a person with good reason call me a wise man, who from the time when I began to understand spoken words have never left off seeking after and learning every good thing that I could?

And what shall we say is accountable for this fact, that although everybody knows that it is quite impossible for me to repay with money, many people are eager to make me some gift? Or for this, that no demands are made on me by a single person for the repayment of benefits, while many confess that they owe me a debt of gratitude? Or for this, that while other men get their delicacies in the markets and pay a high price for them, I devise more pleasurable ones from the resources of my soul, with no expenditure of money?

And now, if no one can convict me of misstatement in all that I have said of myself, do I not unquestionably merit praise from both gods and men? Now very likely the god repulsed him from his attempt to investigate an ancient myth as though it were a painting to be tested by the touch. He had recently been at the shrine of Ammon, and it was plain that he was not particularly impressed by most of the things there, but in regard to the everburning lamp he related a story told by the priests which deserves special consideration ; it is that the lamp consumes less and less oil each year, and they hold that this is a proof of a disparity in the years, which all the time is making one year shorter in duration than its predecessor ; for it is reasonable that in less duration of time the amount consumed should be less.

Besides, Demetrius, not to allow that small things are indication of great stands directly in the way of many arts ; for it will result in taking away from us the demonstration of many facts and the prognostication of many others. This was what one might hear from the priests of the prophetic shrine there ; so some other rejoinder must be offered to them, if we would make for the sun the wonted order of its course immutable, in accord with the tradition of the ages. In fact, the eclipses will prove it, as the sun more frequently casts a shadow on the moon and the moon on the earth ; the other facts are clear, and there is no need to disclose in further detail the imposture in the argument.

But on the assumption that the report is true, is it not better to assign the cause to some coldness or moisture in the air by which the flame is made to languish, and so very likely does not take up nor need very much to support it? Or, quite the reverse, may we assign the cause to spells of dryness and heat? For great was the ancient repute of the divine influence there, but at the present time it seems to be somewhat evanescent.

What need to speak of others, when in Boeotia, which in former times spoke with many tongues because of its oracles, the oracles have now failed completely, even as if they were streams of flowing water, and a great drought in prophecy has overspread the land? For nowhere now except in the neighbourhood of Lebadeia has Boeotia aught to offer to those who would draw from the well-spring of prophecy. As for the rest, silence has come upon some and utter desolation upon others. All this was in harmony, as it were, with events to come ; for Mardonius was vanquished while the Greeks were led, not by a king, but by a guardian and deputy of a king 4 ; and he fell, struck by a stone j ust as the Lydian dreamed that he was struck in his sleep.

While they were wondering and questioning the mere possibility that the god had been born, not in their island, but somewhere else, the prophetic priestess told them in another oracle that a crow would show them the spot. So they went away and, when they reached Chaeroneia, they heard the woman who kept their inn conversing about the oracle with some strangers who were on their way to Tegyrae.

There have been also more recent manifestations than these at these oracles, but now the oracles are no more ; so it is well worth while, here in the precinct of the Pythian god, to examine into the reason for the change. Thucydides, v. Proceeding onward from the temple, we had by this time reached the doors of the Cnidian Clubhouse. There was quiet among the other people there because of the hour, as they were engaged in taking a rub-down or else watching the athletes.

The foundations may still be seen. Thus those maladies and emotions of the soul which it would be good to disclaim and conceal in the presence of an older man, they bring naked and exposed before the god. Moralia, e. The fact is that the man who holds that the obsolescence of such of the oracles as have ceased to function has been brought about by some other cause and not by the will of a god gives reason for suspecting that he believes that their creation and continued existence was not due to the god, but was brought about in some other way.

For prophecy is something created by a god, and certainly no greater or more potent force exists to abolish and obliterate it. Now I do not like what Planetiades said, and one of the reasons is the inconsistency which it creates regarding the god,[p. Now moderation, adequacy, excess in nothing, and complete selfsufficiency are above all else the essential characteristics of everything done by the gods ; and if anyone should take this fact as a starting-point, and assert that Greece has far more than its share in the general depopulation which the earlier discords and wars have wrought throughout practically the whole inhabited earth, and that to-day the whole of Greece would hardly muster three thousand men-at-arms, which is the number that the one city of the Megarians sent forth to Plataeae 1 for the god's abandoning of many oracles is nothing other than his way of substantiating the desolation of Greece , in this way such a man would give some accurate evidence of his keenness in reasoning.

For who would profit if there were an oracle in Tegyrae, as there used to be, or at Ptoiim, where during some part of the day one might possibly meet a human being pasturing his flocks? And regarding the oracle here at Delphi, the most ancient in time and the most famous in repute, men record that for a long time it was made desolate and unapproachable by a fierce creature, a serpent; they do not, however, put the correct interpretation upon its lying idle, but quite the reverse ; for it was the desolation that attracted the creature rather than that the creature caused the desolation.

But to-day there is one priestess and we do not complain, for she meets every need. There is no reason, therefore, to blame the god ; the exercise of the prophetic art which continues at the present day is sufficient for all, and sends away all with their desires fulfilled. In the same way, in those days, prophecy employed more voices to speak to more people, but to-day, quite the reverse, we should needs be surprised at the god if he allowed his prophecies to run to waste, like water, or to echo like the rocks with the voices of shepherds and flocks in waste places.

Herodotus, ix.

  • Perspective Matters - A Quick Guide to Getting the Right Frame!
  • Corporation law essay for law students?
  • Family or Freedom: People of Color in the Antebellum South (New Directions in Southern History);
  • Jesu, Joy of Mans Desiring?

But from the demigods a few souls still, in the long reach of time, because of supreme excellence, come, after being purified, to share completely in divine qualities. Peiper But I cannot brook this talk of universal destruction ; and such impossibilities, in recalling to our minds these utterances, especially those about the crow and the stag, must be allowed to revert upon those that indulge in such exaggeration. Is not that so? Either process gives forty, and when this is multiplied five times by three it gives the specified number. Caerellium, xviii. Of all these things there are, in many places, sacrifices, ceremonies, and legends which preserve and jealously guard vestiges and tokens embodied here and there in their fabric.

Moralia, c, and the lines of Empedocles there quoted. Moralia, c. Moralia, c and d. Moralia, b and e. But the greatest error in regard to the truth is that of the theologians of Delphi who think that the god[p. And as for the story which I have heard before about this flight and the removal to another place, it is dreadfully strange and paradoxical, but if it has any vestige of truth in it, let us not imagine that what was done in those days about the oracle was any slight or common affair. Let this statement be ventured by us, following the lead of many others before us, that coincidently with the total defection of the guardian spirits assigned to the oracles and prophetic shrines, occurs the defection of the oracles themselves ; and when the spirits flee or go to another place, the oracles themselves lose their power, but when the spirits return many years later, the oracles, like musical instruments, become articulate, since those who can put them to use are present and in charge of them.

But you unwittingly take back what you concede ; for you agree that these demigods exist, but by your postulating that they are not bad nor mortal you no longer keep them ; for in what respect do they differ from gods, if as regards their being they possess immortality and as regards their virtues freedom from all emotion or sin? The father of Aemilianus the orator, to whom some of you have listened, was Epitherses, who lived in our town and was my teacher in grammar.

He said that once upon a time in making a voyage to Italy he embarked on a ship carrying freight and many passengers. It was already evening when, near the Echinades Islands, the wind dropped, and the ship drifted near Paxi. Almost everybody was awake, and a good many had not finished their after-dinner wine. Suddenly from the island of Paxi was heard the voice of someone loudly calling Thamus, so that all were amazed. Thamus was an Egyptian pilot, not known by name even to many on board. As many persons were on the vessel, the story was soon spread abroad in Rome, and Thamus was sent for by Tiberius Caesar.

Herodotus, ii. He himself, by the emperor's order, had made a voyage for inquiry and observation to the nearest of these islands which had only a few inhabitants, holy men who were all held inviolate by the Britons. Shortly after his arrival there occurred a great tumult in the air and many portents ; violent winds suddenly swept down and lightning-flashes darted to earth. When these abated, the people of the island said that the passing of someone of the mightier souls had befallen. Moralia, a - a. What, in fact, is there to prevent our accepting an utterance that is impressive and most highly philosophical?

For if it be rejected, it does away with many things which are possible but cannot be proved ; and if it be allowed as a principle, it brings in its train many things that are impossible or non-existent. For by this reasoning Epicurus will be shown to be a worse man than Gorgias the sophist, and Metrodorus worse than Alexis the comic poet; for Alexis lived twice as long as Metrodorus and Gorgias more than a third as long again as Epicurus. For example, many of the animals that are sluggish in movement and slow in their reactions and many that are lascivious and ungovernable live a longer time than the quick and the clever.

Therefore they do not well who make God's eternal existence to be the result of watchfulness and the thrusting aside of destructive agencies. No, immunity from emotion and destruction ought to reside in the blessed Being, and should require no activity on His part. Perhaps, however, to speak thus with reference to people that are not present does not show great consideration. So it is right that Cleombrotus should resume the topic which he discontinued a few moments ago about the migration and flight of the demigods.

Yet it seems to be close to the subject of natural phenomena and Plato 1 has given the key-note for it, not by an unqualified pronouncement, but as the result of a vague concept, cautiously suggesting also the underlying idea in an enigmatic way ; but, for all that, there has been loud disparagement of him on the part of other philosophers. But there is set before us for general use a bowl of myths and stories combined, and where could one meet with more kindly listeners for testing these stories, even as one tests coins from foreign lands?

It was near the Persian Gulf that I found him, where he holds a meeting with human beings once every year ; and there I had an opportunity to talk with him and met with a kindly reception. The other days of his life, according to his statement, he spends in association with roving nymphs and demigods.